Meeting with Colin Preston and Marie-Helene Robitaille at CBC Vancouver

This meeting was set up by Francis with the two coordinators of the CBC archives in Vancouver. These notes were taken during the meeting.
Those in attendance: Colin Preston (CP), Marie-Helene Robitaille (MH), Francis Mansbridge (FM), Kedrick James (KJ)

We were escorted into the CBC building which is currently under renovation. After introductions and a quick chat we had the following conversation regarding how to go about setting up our archives:

CP Get a sponsoring body. Corporations can help to develop projects and make trades in kind. They can help to solidify the organization’s trustworthiness in the eyes of funders.
MH makes the point that this is an umbrella society. There are different archives and we could just be a hub pointing to them. We will affiliate ourselves with other organizations in the process.
KJ asks about what poetry archives are present in the CBC vault?
CP responds: As far as spoken word goes, so little remains, more in terms of broadcast media, news footage.
We need to think about two concurrent aspects of running an archive. Archives provide preservation and access to artifacts. The preservation of artifacts is based on the simple principle that cooler and dryer spaces are better. Magnetic tape is just rust attached to a backing, so it decomposes quickly when the temperature changes. The Prairie basement is the typical nightmare scenario.
MH talks about the archives collected by the Francophone community in BC. After the initial work of gathering the materials–photographs and so on–it was just abandoned. Then later they started up again on the basis of that collection, but the previous donations were already in chaos, and not well cared for. This betrays those who donate materials in good faith.
CP Even here at the CBC it’s possible to keep the archival materials, they always have room here at CBC and CP’s boss is supportive of these kinds of outreach. There’s typically a place you can find to keep stuff you’ve gathered while you are figuring out what you want to do with it, and while conducting the work of a society. People spend too long setting up the bigger picture. It’s better to get started right away with a project you can use to promote your work. You need anything that will draw energy and attention to itself and this will help the society to achieve its agenda.
It is essential to get a good overview of the materials in hand. Are there good log sheets to accompany the collection? We need to get the details down for the tapes, how many, how long, who, before we start the recovery process. There’s the need to improve their accessibility and the larger an archive is the more this can present a problem if the collection is not appropriately catalogued.
It is a good idea to work with commercial houses such as Commercial Electronics (in Vancouver) and see what they quote to put a whole collection (KJ has suggested 60 hours of Betacam footage) onto Beta SP.
CP gives an example of Krisztina Laszlo at Belkin Gallery, who also works with the MOA (Museum of Anthropology at the University of British Columbia) because they did the same kind of thing. They have some old archives they recovered on tape and needed to get them into digital format and preserve the original artifacts. We could contact her and ask about the process they went through. Was her experience positive? Where did they get the work done? Commercial Electronics was their service bureau.
They made an acquisition of archival materials and Colin helped them to get it cleaned at CBC Vancouver because the Toronto CBC head of archives sent over their 2” tape cleaning machines. Once the tapes were clean they were able to do an archival dub. There are still questions about the stability of digital archives. It’s always good, if sometimes problematic, to keep original artifacts.
MH The Francophone community in BC, when they were setting up the archives of the historical society, had the desire to be the repository for all the materials and to gather everything into one place. She suggests that the model of a repository is not as useful as a portal that links lots of different organizations and sites. That way you can set yourselves up to reference materials that are out there, you can point to places.
FM states that the first thing on our agenda is to preserve important cultural artifacts. We have been engaging in a discussion around what exactly comprises our definition of digital poetry. Are we a digital archive of poetry or an archive of digital poetry? Both are worthy, although somewhat different, tasks.
MH says we should look at what is out there and then we can concern ourselves with gathering all the information about who is doing what (in the related field). Once we’ve established ourselves as an organization, people will be willing to donate materials to the archive. People donate in good faith, so it is important to honour that. Again, this was the problem with the historical society. When the society collapsed the collections were not kept well.
CP Sue Biglow is also someone we might want to talk to. People need something to represent the organization by, that sets the work of the society in a good light. They want to know who they are potentially going to sponsor. There are many different tasks involved, so you can find other kinds of support (besides funding) as well. For example, are the tapes KJ mentioned going to be transcribed? Who would transcribe them? Is this a deeper exploration of the materials, or is the goal just to provide a poetic Youtube.
KJ responds that this is not the intention of the organization (DPAC), at least not to start. We are interested in putting together a good representative product that can be used to draw attention to the organization, as CP had mentioned earlier. This would include both a digital and print component. This would include lower res and higher res modes of distribution, the first for open access and the second for institutional or collector sales. But overall, such a project would provide a way to get the society working and get us recognized.
CM It strikes Colin that the UBC poetry conference in 1978 is a good starting place and it will draw interest to itself, it has a local-interest quality, but also a national importance, so the momentum can snowball. It is good to have a focus, which could be either a particular person or an event of that nature. These are some of the same issues that Kris was facing. The first hope is that there is someone carefully storing materials. Then you need to make some projects come to life. Couple of false starts is no problem.
KJ asks about the CBC archives getting put online.
CP responds that putting CBC stuff online is funded by Heritage Canada and that is all done in Toronto and Montreal where the main archives and the head office of CBC’s archives are situated. The online aspects of the archival processes under Heritage Canada emphasize technology. They tend to make the materials more interactive and add features that are entertainment oriented, so that visitors can play with the digital materials. That’s what kids like to do, after all. You need an organizational or institutional patron to help with those things, like Heritage Canada, or even perhaps UBC. This takes the form of either funding, support or in-kind donation, such as “We’ll sponsor this grant, or, we’ll get our students in such and such a program to help (with things like transcribing, or digital transfers, etc.) Is there a possibility for a UBC connection?
MH cautions that one problem is ownership and who provides access. Some institutions can be a hinderance in terms of getting things done and out there. Sometime preservation comes at the cost of access. And there is the legal rights issue. CBC finds it difficult to put materials online without a clear designation stating that intention when the original contracts were signed.
KJ Part of the upcoming AGM will be looking into what steps we will need to be taking in this regard, and how to move forward with that business end of things. We hope to keep an open access version of the materials, and sort out some of the other steps in light of agreements that follow from that process.
CP agrees that that is a way forward. It is important to focus on a digital poetry archives, while asking the question about what the parameters are when we say digital. Digital materials are best kept in digital form. This is the material that will most likely be lost for good (when technology changes) because it doesn’t exist in other forms. Besides the 1978 UBC conference, we can focus on that kind of material as well. How broadly we define the digital/magnetic genre were working on will be important when we start gathering the collection. If we get a film of a poetry performance is that something we should be looking at preserving? We might also want to look at facilitating the recording of other materials (for example, follow up interviews, or current poetry events, and so on) and offer support where this is being done. It will be important to have a place to keep these materials that is secure and dependable.
Another suggestion of someone to contact is Erin Vidaver (need more details). You could work out a deal with them. You could have on the side an ability to document things nobody else is documenting and archiving.
MH mentions that Langara College has recently rebuilt its library and have taken some archival material on. To do so we need to have a good sense of what our mandate is. This can also focus on preserving a sense of local memory, as Canadian writer Brian Fawcett discusses, it could focus around specific artists and personalities as well as giving an overview of a genre.

KJ asks if there are any organizations that we might want to get in touch, or team up with that CP can thing of, particular as this regards a broad national focus for the society. There are good archives in Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and so on. Colin’s particular favorite is Association of Moving Image Archivists (see blogged discussion with Jeannette). CP also suggest we contact SFU, there were also various similar efforts being made by Colin Browne, and local organizations like the Kootenay School, or the Western Front, or go see the folks at the Cinemateque.
KJ asks “What about rights and legal issues?” Currently the CBC are in the middle of it with several projects. However, it is not such a big issue. The benefit of the work getting out there and being preserved is a form of exchange. At the CBC, they tend to give the licensee full responsibility. There are creative solutions to getting the rights to archival artifacts. For one thing, it gives a sense of longevity to the work, and the authors are not dribbling off into infinity. In the act of preservation the work continues to have a life so they should be happy about that. We could just ask “How would you like your name on the credits” and leave it at that!
KJ asks CP if they have space in the vault at CBC to store some boxes of archival materials while DPAC is getting set up. CP says yes, we can store materials there for a few years if we need a proper climate controlled space. What about tape cleaners? CBC doesn’t typically store and clean many different tapes, but he knows they have beta cam cleaners at the CBC Vancouver location. Colin will test their Betamax cleaners for us and let us know if they’re in working order. They will make every effort and Colin very generously offers his assistance. This can be a temporary housing for materials and potentially offer us a way to prepare our pilot archives for digital transfer.

We adjourn our meeting. It is great to have met Colin and Marie Helene. Both were very generous with their time, and their enthusiasm and commitment to this kind of work is apparent. I feel a real sense of gratitude to both of them, and to the CBC for the very kind offer of assistance in the above regards. Also thanks to Francis for setting up this meeting.